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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 134	Posted - 2016.01.18 22:38:11 - [1] - Quote DmitryEKT wrote: Luna Bowman wrote: Even as a newbie, i see a problem. The problem is called insta-alts. Be it gank, market, mining, anything. CCP, any stance on how this impacts the game ? doesn't affect it in any way, because character bazaar already exists. Ye. Now a new character can put a bazaar toon into the SP meat grinder and keep his old/new/preferred name/character. They will be bought for this very purpose now, and sold for parts. Gruesome and funny, in a very Eve way. I am fine with this system, as it does not introduce or inject SP into the system. It rewards new players most and immediately puts to rest the argument of never being able to catch up or being forever less effective than the other guy 'that's been here longer'. It shifts SP from one place to another with diminishing returns. I can't see a way it can be gamed. Well done, sirs. It has come at a vital time when we will be receiving many new players because of Valkyrie on the Oculus Rift. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 134	Posted - 2016.01.23 05:36:39 - [2] - Quote I don't think they are understanding just how much the injectors will be, which will act in and of itself as the prohibiter or hedge to check its proliferation. For example, and for the sake of argument, let's say they were made available for 1800 AUR a stick. Add the value of SP to this empty stick and you now have what could be near the value of a single PLEX. Undoubtedly PLEX will inflate, so I will throw out an estimated value of 800m ISK a pop. After the first 10 Skill Shots (assuming this is a brand new character with zero training) any subsequent injectors will suffer a 100k SP loss on activation. That's 8 BILLION in costs just to jump to 5 million SP. What kind of marauder will you be flying with 5mil SP! Far from the doomsday scenario people are painting. No one will be able to afford to catch up to a 200m SP character. EVER!!!!! If thousands do, hopefully CCP can throw a perpetual fanfest that goes all year long and at every major location. Whoop! ::puts party hat on:: There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 134	Posted - 2016.01.25 05:15:56 - [3] - Quote The cap is present already with how effective they will be the higher your SP. You can realistically expect the majority of pilots who use this, even aggressively, to slow down dramatically after spending on twenty injectors. Rich ***** capsuleers will exhaust their efforts and/or thin their wallets dramatically once they reach the +80m threshold. The bump to their effectiveness at higher levels is not such a big deal and makes this actual-cost item not completely worthless for veteran pilots. It was a risky, but well made decision. Once again, people are not clearly grasping just how expensive this will be if they are priced at barely affording two empty injectors per plex. At that rate, I would just mock whoever spent that much RL currency on a game, much as I do already to any Elite player. Cheers to CCP when suckers like that gobble up hook, line and sinker. With the changing times and trends, Eve needs this more than false illusions of entitled investment or 'back in my day' talk about how you loved to watch a queue tick-tock its way after you alarm clocked to set the next skill in. I currently sit just past the point where these will not be very useful for me at cost. I'm alright with that. I'm also alright with getting an awesome fight from a three day old nub. Bring it on. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 135	Posted - 2016.01.25 07:17:26 - [4] - Quote Zee Zaugg wrote: Oreb Wing wrote: ... The cap isnt really present because you still get 3/5 of the SP even if you have an extremely veteran player. Thats pocket change to many players, even if they cost the same as a plex. The 150k sp for top players was still abusable, but then, after 85% complaints and 15% saying it wasnt fair to vets, they decided to DOUBLE the sp gained, making it even MORE abusable. There will be no cap unless they set a cap, a HARD cap, as in "can only use a max of 10 per account" or something I wouldn't say that's abusable. That's legit 2/5 SP going down the toilet. I would really want you to think of what you can skill up with 150k SP when most skills are 1m to take to V at a multiplier of x4. Now take a veteran player and see how many very advanced skills are beyond that multiplier. Racial (x) Titan skill has a multiplier of x16!! Dreadnought racial so-and-so multiplier of x12. ZOMG! Maybe they can train some mining skills and hop into a mining frigate with that injector. Maybe take the Science x1 skill HALFWAY to V. I'm not making this up. 150k is peanuts and so is 500k at cost. The most important feedback you can give atm is to make certain the injectors are not given away. Rest assured, however, in that nothing in the AUR store has ever been 'cheap'. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 136	Posted - 2016.01.25 18:48:20 - [5] - Quote What would you say is too much for an empty extractor? Or a full one? Disregard the undetermined AUR price, but say a range that would persuade you as a new player and a price range to which you find yourself repulsed by.. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 136	Posted - 2016.01.25 19:09:29 - [6] - Quote Also, if the injection were to apply itself as 'Unallocated Reserve' SP, such as when you are given credit for removed skills or bugs (like the cerebral accelerators) then a very rich and very motivated pilot could simply inject countless full extractors to a pilot that sits at sub 5m SP (or has been reduced to nothing by extractors), while refraining from attributing/applying them until he is ready to gorge on the unallocated SP bank. So, either CCP generates a block that forces you to apply unallocated SP before the next injection (which could run into some issues on future allocations that cannot be applied due to an unallocated reserve being present) or have the system recognize the unallocated SP together with the accrued SP as the total character SP. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 136	Posted - 2016.01.25 19:13:26 - [7] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: https://twitter.com/JadekMenaheim/status/689402088711847937 CCPlease do. I don't see the difference by injected skills to injected SP. Clones are not updated as time progresses, but are installed with the SP or experience of the pilot. I see this idea as contrary to the lore on a foundational level. But it was funny. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 137	Posted - 2016.01.25 19:53:27 - [8] - Quote Algarion Getz wrote: "tired of waiting? buy a shortcut!" I guess the injectors will cost something like 500mil ISK. So as a newbie you will need about 30h of ISK grinding to buy one or 20$ for a PLEX to buy 2. Technically its not 100% P2W, but it will look like it for new players. Thats terrible, because most players leave when they realise a game is P2W. IF you really want to help new players give them more start SP and a long-lasting cerebral accelerator. A feature that allows selling SP for cash is inconsiderate, shortsighted, superficial and also dishonest. I would expect such a feature from a company like EA, but not CCP. You can always have a new player purchase PLEX to purchase skill stems. Many pilots already consider PLEX as p2w or paying to avoid the grind. The bazaar, PLEX, injectors, all these are RMT transactions. When I started I left because of P2W. Not pay to win, but Pay To Wait. I was not impatient, but I did feel like I was being had to sit on a 2 week timer for a ship and not really knowing or having experience in other things that were available to occupy my time until then. The new player experience is to blame in most cases of noob frustration. There are no clear road signs that breadcrumb a newby towards good content that can keep you busy while you wait: COSMOS agents, Epic Arcs, Landmarks. We need something like Lore Agents which can be perhaps a 5th profession or tutorial branch. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 138	Posted - 2016.01.25 19:59:26 - [9] - Quote Jack Carrigan wrote: This is a terrible idea. Your eloquence in defining why is is so impressive I am speechless. It was so amazing and helpful. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 139	Posted - 2016.01.25 20:28:47 - [10] - Quote Amanda Orion wrote: Oreb Wing wrote: Jack Carrigan wrote: This is a terrible idea. Your eloquence in defining why it is is so impressive I am speechless. It was so amazing and helpful. That would be an opinion, not a definition. Opinions too, have their place. So do the thumb's up, which take up much less space than empty opinions. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 140	Posted - 2016.01.26 00:29:29 - [11] - Quote Amanda Orion wrote: Oreb Wing wrote: So do the thumb's up, which take up much less space than empty opinions. But hardly appropriate for a terrible idea. Yet appropriate enough for pointless inconsequential childish antagonism? A person that welcomes opinion, but disallows any criticism of that opinion, has little to add to the forum, as it exists here and in its most ancient setting and origin. Even still, I expected more from Carrigan, who has always been well spoken. Surely he could look deep enough to do better than that, to give shape to his dissent. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 140	Posted - 2016.01.26 00:53:25 - [12] - Quote Zee Zaugg wrote: Also I think its just a bad idea to make SP available in any way besides time investment. But you all seem more concerned about the prices and financial implications We've given many examples of how a new player can make use of this feature, which could make a new player stay by just being an option that is available than the only other option that has been present, the one of tiresome waiting - which so many people look back at, incredibly, with fondness! That said, and the fact that they are coming whether we like it or not, the biggest unknown factor must be discussed: pricing of the injectors. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 140	Posted - 2016.01.26 20:34:53 - [13] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Here's a radical suggestion for CCP if they need more money. Instead of cash for skills, they could try to attract new players and keep the ones they already have by fixing the bugs and improving the game with new content etc Doesn't appear they no longer have the confidence to do that anymore so they're opting for the easy way out. Major changes to SOV Incoming rework of cap ships Various new ships including an expansion on MJD mechanics Incoming new type of structure significantly different than current player deployables Various seasonal events Project discovery Visual improvements More fixes than I'm willing to put forth the effort to count ...Nope, CCP is apparently showing no confidence at all. Admittingly with the Large Grid changes along with some of the mentions above, I too thought that CCP still had some creative juices left in their tanks to continue empowering Eve into the future. And then they take a HUGE step backwards by adding this cheap money grab scheme to the game that was well on it's way for a breakthrough..........sigh...... It's like seeing a fabulous castle getting built and when it was nearing it's completion the builders decided to replace some of the expensive materials with cheap materials thinking no one is gonna be able to tell the difference anyways. But the one thing the builders failed to realize is that the cheap materials have a weak foundation that will cause the entire castle to collapse within 18 months compared to lasting another 10-20 years if they continued using the finer materials. More like the surfs that had to trudge the bricks higher and higher as the tower rose in height, and long in the tooth, the more tired and senseless they saw the exchange and difference from themselves against those mighty dreams of the raging veterans. Angry they yell, They will now be like us with the tower half built without them! Those that are angry have failed to see this tower was not rising as fast, or as sturdy. Those of you saying VR will bust, or that you refuse to try Valkyrie: That's to bad, because it's not like anything else I've ever played and there's a reason it was chosen as the Oculus launch title. You're going to miss out. And if you think eve is about delayed achievement in SP, if feel you have been missing out on the best of Eve this whole time.. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 141	Posted - 2016.01.27 03:28:58 - [14] - Quote Mike. It is no different than trying to explain pvp to a new guy that just got owned by smaller, less expensive, ships. Or traveling down a low sec pipe to get camped on three separate occasions in the same play session (yes, it does happen very often) and wants this BS explained. I've learned that with newbs you tell them only as much as they can handle atm, because Eve is just too big, with too many layers. On top of this all, it will be easier to circumvent the total frustration a new player feels when he repeatedly feels like the ship he needs is always a week, weeks, months, or half a year away. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 141	Posted - 2016.01.27 03:46:08 - [15] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Mike Azariah wrote: That is the balancing act CCP is betting on. That the increase revenue will exceed any losses via disillusioned players leaving. The one who is disillusioned is CCP. Their gambling this time is a bad one and unlike in the past where if they made a mistake they could just fix it next patch, they won't be able to fix it this time. This time it's different, once they implement this feature there would be no going back. Not only that but this is uncharted territory in the game core mechanics that CCP never touched since this game been released until now. There won't be another retry if they get this wrong so they really should consider player feedback and really take their time with this before they outright kill this game. Yes. Pricing of the extractors is paramount to how this will play out. IMO, they should be equal the cost of the estimated value of the half a month training or more. So, when people say 1000, I don't think they are too far off. 1800 would pits a lot of people off, but it will govern this handedly. I don't agree with removing the bazaar, as there will always be abandoned characters. More like extractors will bring the end of the bazaar, as those who sell characters will simply see more revenue with the extracted SP and the character factors out of the way. If they can afford the extractors, or at least the first one. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 141	Posted - 2016.01.27 04:34:17 - [16] - Quote You don't want to know what I think about Citadels... There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 141	Posted - 2016.01.27 04:45:46 - [17] - Quote Much like here, enough can be presumed or foretold with high accuracy by just having one single piece of information left out: Extractor AUR cost. Citadels are no different in the case of where and how you can anchor them. But, yes, there are many threads in the warfare and tactics forum. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 143	Posted - 2016.01.27 16:51:48 - [18] - Quote Buba Neagra wrote: Let's say the market will be : 1 plex = 1 bil 1 extractor + 500k SP (400k/300k/150k) = 500 mil Option 1 : Being a rich mf and buying 200 plex from CCP will get me 200 bil. 200 bil will get me a char over 200 mil SP Option 2 : Being the same rich mf I decide to buy 200 injectors + 500k SP (400k/300k/150k) That would be 200 bil for 100 mil SP ( at the 500k SP rate which won't be the case obviously since you're gonna inject 500k at first then 400k and so on ) I would choose the first option. I don't think the skill trading is a big deal really. People will buy a few to boost a skill here and there but won't be such a big impact over all. My two cents. This is too cheap. Of all the mockery of doomsayers, many of you are not seeing that it could go both ways. You make them too expensive and CCP will have gained nothing, hardly helped any new player and have nothing but the heaped on ridicule of being greedy stuck on every wall. On the flip side, if they price them too low, or ' affordable', as you put it, you will see exactly what CSM Mike, and others, have said. Except he went furthest. The rich will pull them off market with the highest buy orders and use them strategically in-game to buff their alt capital numbers, as it would be much cheaper to make sure no one can oppose you than offer SRP. Then noobs will rely on friends to fill up their purchased extractors because even the bazaar became a wasteland. They need to not be 'affordable'. The price point you suggest for a full extractor should be what an empty one should come near to being. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 143	Posted - 2016.01.27 20:48:18 - [19] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: Oreb Wing wrote: You make them too expensive and CCP will have gained nothing, hardly helped any new player and have nothing but the heaped on ridicule of being greedy stuck on every wall. On the flip side, if they price them too low, or ' affordable', as you put it, you will see exactly what CSM Mike, and others, have said. Except he went furthest. The rich will pull them off market with the highest buy orders and use them strategically in-game to buff their alt capital numbers, as it would be much cheaper to make sure no one can oppose you than offer SRP. Then noobs will rely on friends to fill up their purchased extractors because even the bazaar became a wasteland. They need to not be 'affordable'. The price point you suggest for a full extractor should be what an empty one should come near to being. This makes no sense whatsoever, even on its own questionable terms. "Affordable" is not some kind of absolute number, it is relative to the person and their financial situation. The ISK rich will do what you suggest whether the filled injectors costs 300M, 500M, 1B or even more ISK, as long as they see some value in such an investment. They can afford it, and they will if it furthers their agenda. You cannot price them out of the market, at least not with a remotely sane price for the extractor. But you can price "newbies" out of the market, or for that matter mid-level players, or indeed anybody who is neither member of a corp owning an ISK faucet nor embracing grinding as their way of life. If you raise the price too high, make it "not affordable" for most, then the only action you will see is precisely the 1% of EVE recruiting an alt army, or the like. Not only is that a really dumb move concerning overall game play and balance, it isn't even financially attractive. The 1% are that, the 1%. And maybe they buy a good many alts each, but once they are done with that, they will be done with that. There is no steady cash flow in this. The only thing that makes sense here is to make these extractors affordable. Of course, what the filled injectors will cost is a function of the market. But CCP can manipulate the minimum cost at least, and really should keep it low to see lots of trade and usage of these. Finally, the idea that the ISK rich of EVE can somehow "suck dry" the SP market is just plain silly. Of course, they can buy out all SP injectors that come to market initially. But if they do this, then the prices for the injectors will be very high on the market (demand outstripping supply). It takes about 2.5 months to set up a SP farm from scratch (the time it takes to get a new character from their initial 400k to 5.5M, ready for extraction). If the prices remain high for a few weeks, lots of people will start building up SP farms. So within about 3 months you will see this first big wave of farmed SP supply hit the market. If the ISK rich insists on buying this SP as fast as it arrives, then you can bet that people will expand their SP farms, and ever more people will continuously try to get in on this enormous ISK flow. Eventually the ever rising supply will overwhelm the demand, eventually the ISK rich will go broke if they continue buying. It's just not possible to buy up a supply that is not only renewable, but renewable at essentially arbitrary speeds (you can always add more alts to a SP farm). At that point the market would crash, and we would be swimming in an incredible oversupply of injectors, probably being sold off way below cost... By the end here, you just proved me right. If you cannot see how low cost injectors can artificially inflate PLEX in the short term, then actually DEVALUATE plex in the long run, then I daresay you have not seen as far ahead as I have. All our would take is a handful of nerds that think it's fun to make a game out of selling the SP they accumulated. They could destroy Eve without ever firing a single missile. Industrialists that never leave station need only plug the best learning implants and sell the injectors as an easy side project. Now add the 1% over and on top of that. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 143	Posted - 2016.01.28 04:14:15 - [20] - Quote Tristan Agion wrote: Kaldi Tsukaya wrote: They will buy and control the market, as SP = power. SP is a force multiplier and will be useful for augmenting the overall might and abilities of the wealthy. How can anyone possibly "buy and control" this market? It is a renewable resource, regeneration can be sped up arbitrarily by recruiting more alts; and it is accessible to practically everybody in station without ever undocking, so it is impossible to restrict by non-market means. You are under the false, and very short-sighted, presumption that the availability of SP, and its estimated values, are set. You also seem to think it will be a renewable resource that can keep up with demand created by the power blocks alone. You are in error. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 144	Posted - 2016.01.28 04:40:43 - [21] - Quote "I'm not getting the same conclusion regarding either a set availability or value from that. Rather he stated SP availability is variable. Meanwhile I'd question the logic that a high extractor price does anything to change availability in a positive fashion or further the idea that those power blocks can somehow realistically be priced out while still making them obtainable by anyone else." Do you realistically believe that people that use plex for Isk will continue to use just plex? It will be easier and cheaper to sell extractors, which brings us to the diminishing availability of plex and its exponential increased demand - or, again, do you both think these SP farms will be paid with real subs? The equations are estimations based on current numbers and not accurate models based on an overwhelming probability of the cheap extractors surpassing plex in value. You say it is impossible, but is it really? There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 144	Posted - 2016.01.28 04:48:40 - [22] - Quote And even if this disaster it's curtailed, the damage would have been done. The low cost of the extractors would bring this upside down situation that makes this exploitable by not just the rich 1% but the 10%. That is what you are not grasping. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 145	Posted - 2016.01.29 03:51:18 - [23] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: Rain6637 wrote: I recall a long time ago a Dev said the most (or one of the most) OP things in the game is unallocated SP. I think I know what he meant but it is incorrect in essence. Unallocated is unused. It is like a fat isk wallet. If you do not spend it then it has no effect upon the game. m I just hope that there's a failsafe in place to prevent mass unpenalized injections that sit unallocated in the reserved bank. Stressed enough to say it twice. I'll wait to see what the set price is set as. High enough to prevent the sp farming, I hope. ::edit:: At least minimize it.::edit:: There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 145	Posted - 2016.01.29 12:00:29 - [24] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Warde Guildencrantz wrote: Here's another question, if I can buy skillpoints via the market, are you going to make a new subscription option that doesn't allow skill training but costs less? Why expand in one direction but not the other? I should be able to play the game without having to train my character for a lower price. You *already* will be able to do just that! It's an interesting consequence of the new system, that apparently not many people have realized so far: 1. Get 1-month sub with your own money (cash or PLEX) 2. Gain SP, even though you do not want it for yourself 3. Sell all of that SP, get ISK 4. Use ISK to puy PLEX (you may or may not have to add some of your own ISK to get a full PLEX out of 1 month SP, depending on market prices; still it's highly probable that 1 month SP will allow you to fund at least 80-90% of a PLEX) 5. Play for free, or at least play 'at a discount' I have two alts that do indie for me on the extra two slots. One was transferred, the other skilled up while my main was paused. In a way, you can already do this. The scenario Gulley is painting is the one I nearly lost my **** trying to explain until Tristan slapped a little sense into my babbling. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 145	Posted - 2016.01.29 17:02:02 - [25] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: No. There is still the opportunity cost of not getting the better/new skills. Just because something does not involved some sort of currency does not mean there is no cost. There are a lot of specialized alts who don't need a lot of SP. So why should I subscribe them if I can PLEX them with the ISK I get for the SP I dont need anyway? This will indeed result in free alts. I'd hate to say, I told you so. The biggest difference between the injector and plex is complex. Plex is pretty straight forward: You pay a slight increase of the value of a single month of subscription at the most expensive package rate, by single month. Extractors, on the other hand, shares a relationship with plex indirectly by the very thing only plex can provide: The SP of an active skill queue. The amount of Isk in game is something we cannot determine. The existence of pilots that can sub their accounts for untold years exist, but what would be the incentive for this? Whether they are kept active on a monthly basis or yearly, there is no difference. Now, with extractors, you've introduced not only a sink for this, but a motivator for what has accumulated over the years for no other purpose than that it could. The value of SP cannot be determined, because every pilot has different goals, expectations, ambitions. Some will have little value for SP while others would give all their attention to it. That it's why it can destabilize and go whichever way. Set it low cost and you introduce chaos into the system. Nothing can predict what will happen on the whole. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 145	Posted - 2016.01.29 19:10:49 - [26] - Quote Mark my words, if extractors go for sub 500AUR, I shall dub the coming era as, The War of Aeons. Instead of capsuleer wars, you will have little spirits have hover over and possess their specialized pilot and war machine. Perfect Interceptor pilot today, tomorrow my perfect HIC for the cap fight, next week my near perfect Legion. You will have not only Ship Replacement Programs but also Skill Replacement Programs to keep your T3's top notch the same day as the loss. Injectors are valuable now as a war commodity. Surprise. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 146	Posted - 2016.01.29 21:55:33 - [27] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Oreb Wing wrote: Mark my words, if extractors go for sub 500AUR, I shall dub the coming era as, The War of Aeons. Instead of capsuleer wars, you will have little spirits have hover over and possess their specialized pilot and war machine. Perfect Interceptor pilot today, tomorrow my perfect HIC for the cap fight, next week my near perfect Legion. You will have not only Ship Replacement Programs but also Skill Replacement Programs to keep your T3's top notch the same day as the loss. Injectors are valuable now as a war commodity. Surprise. This is a non-issue, I have perfect pilots for most of those use cases NOW while still having even more perfect use cases and NO extractor cost to realize them. What you're basically saying is that players being able to have perfect skills for a given ship is broken, but that makes training itself broken over time. And ignores that brokenness is already realized. You seem to apply all deductions to yourself. It has nothing to do with you but everything to do with the new pilots or the alts that they can create on the 2nd or 3rd box of a single account, all while training up their main to do whatever it is they wish. The ping goes out, they sign off and back on to their un-paid alt with perfect skills in a ship that is ALWAYS going to be useful. This has changed the landscape of warfare by increasing the value and potential of every new pilot, thus making an already exceptional force even more powerful. Tyberius Franklin wrote: You're also contradicting your prior point regarding low extractor prices causing manipulation that results in general unaffordability. How can we have enough of these perfect skilled pilots floating around when per your claim SP won't be available to keep those SP swaps from shriveling the total SP those characters have and lack the ability to purchase more? Like I said before, one thing applies to the short term, another thing entirely to the long term. Availability of the injectors will be just stupid. Whey even make an estimation? It is a given. If they are cheap, be ready for the floodgates to open. The lowest they will go for will determined by how valuable they are to the rich and not how many there will be. Tyberius Franklin wrote: Also to your prior post no, PLEX is not just game time anymore. It's also an AUR souce, meaning it's price reflects demand from every possible use including extractor purchase, meaning that the higher the extractor cost, the more strain there is on PLEX. If PLEXing for a "free" account by selling SP becomes a norm through being economically viable rest assured high extractor prices WILL NOT BE A DETERING FACTOR beyond how much you have to invest before the first extractor purchase. After that every sale pays you back that cost to spend again on the next one on top of gains for PLEXing game time. I give it one year until those who plex will not be able to afford the plex, and those that plex will reach a frustration point that they refuse to plex, leading to even higher costs and scarcity. At this point it is the 1% that will truly shine and perhaps be the only source for the SP farming, as their accounts will be paid far in advance that they will have little concern over state of affairs with PLEX economy. If I were they, I would reserve my brain drains and pick up the cheap extractors from every other nub that sells cheaply in the offset. In conclusion. The fact that we are having a discussion about SP farming as a renewable income stream says more about how you just do not understand that this outcome is bad and that it is unavoidable with a low cost extractor. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 147	Posted - 2016.01.29 22:43:29 - [28] - Quote It's their ratio in respects to PLEX. If the income is offset by a margin then the viability of SP farming is reduced because more comes out of pocket to sustain the farming. I don't know who it was that thinks there will be many directly paid accounts that are SP farming focused. Worst case scenario is when plex begins to sell at a loss from when it was purchased. Also, if the extractors sell low, the injectors will be in high demand because of their price point. Now, I don't consider myself Eve rich, but even I will use them if they are 300m. Why not? That, sir, is the ultimate question. Price will dictate demand and any noob that is desperate and impatient will see they are worth the investment of money, even if it is at twice the cost of just waiting on the paid sub. It will still serve its role but not be so widely abused. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 148	Posted - 2016.01.30 06:06:41 - [29] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: That assumes the cost isn't passed on to the market. There doesn't seem to be any reason to make that assumption unless you're assuming a near-fixed injector price. If you view them as elastic you have to consider the possibility that they just expand to any added cost, especially with the high point of initial demand. I can only speculate about the minimum fixed price, being attractive near half the value of the injector SP against the monthly value of a plex in its respective training time. I don't think I'm wrong to think there will be a consistent buy order of at least 200-250 mil. But unlike any other resource, SP cannot rise or fall to meet demand in any sustained way or by the investment of time or number of farms - especially after plex rises to an untenable level for SP farming. That won't be seen in the short term. I believe supply can keep up with demand initially, due to the large number of SP currently unwanted, unused, or primed for selling. So high demand is driving both the seller and high supply the buyer. And much like petrol in the states being $2 bucks a gallon, it is not a sustainable resource in its present form. Neither will SP be due to its unique association with plex and the training time on which it relies to exist and to also be created through. It is Pizza The Hut devouring its cheap delicious self. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 148	Posted - 2016.01.31 03:07:37 - [30] - Quote The o7 eve show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maVjcmXuMUw&index=1&list=PLQvKSs1k6DLOJpQmojYo4JsrqSfLnoN5r has many data charts and average SP per hour at the last 10 minutes of the video. Cool lab coat, bro. Please add as vanity item so i can pair it with the goggles. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 148	Posted - 2016.01.31 16:42:03 - [31] - Quote All skills train the same amount of SP per hour. They take longer only because of the multiplier that makes them worth more SP, not that they slow down the ticker at all. You should check out those graphs. I think your +5 and specialized attribute SP per hour is calculated too low. I have two +3's in with a full willpower/perception map and nearly everything I've trained is hulls lately. I haven't paid much attention to it though, but the graphs show a much higher rate for maximum sp per hour. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 149	Posted - 2016.01.31 21:11:39 - [32] - Quote It's not nothing bro. I've already broke a tree in my back yard over this with a kick of my righteous fury alone. Then crushed the fallen bark with mah bare hands. I have four more CCP! Don't make me do it! And how did you get such a high AUR price? Curious. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 149	Posted - 2016.01.31 21:56:41 - [33] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: The maximum value of a 500k skillpack is 1/4 PLEX, on the market it will be traded lower as the figures from the bazaar show us, and also from the fact that training time per subscription is more efficient than PLEX. The extractor price on top needs to be balanced against the 2 PLEX fee for char transfers. Hence a fee much higher than the transfer fee per char/skillpack will make skill trading a niche market for snobs. The bazaar character transfer charge is arbitrary. I don't think the AUR injector price needs to show any consideration for what I think is pretty much a handling fee to keep transfers serious and make up the cost of time. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 149	Posted - 2016.02.01 17:37:00 - [34] - Quote MidnightWyvern wrote: Dear Amarrian God in Heaven this thread is at 88 pages. I feel like I represent a very small minority of forum users in that I don't have any opposition to this feature or suggestions to "fix" it. The one below this is 322 pages long There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 149	Posted - 2016.02.01 17:44:19 - [35] - Quote Suede wrote: Skill Extractors may only be used by characters with at least 5,500,000 skillpoints. Skill Extractor This item can be activated in a station to grant the user unallocated skill points. Skill injectors are consumed immediately once activated. The amount of skill points granted depends on the total skill points the using character possesses, according to the following scale: Characters with less than 5,000,000 skill points will receive 500,000 unallocated skill points Characters with between 5,000,000 and 50,000,000 skill points will receive 400,000 unallocated skill points Characters with between 50,000,000 and 80,000,000 skill points will receieve 300,000 unallocated skill points Characters with more than 80,000,000 skill points will receieve 150,000 unallocated skill points Skill Injectors are created using a Skill Extractor That minimum was probably set for the test server. I don't think it makes any sense to talk about how they benefit new players if you have to be here three months+ to use one. That is just silly. Nor do I think the 500k unpenalized injector would be bothered to be stated. They would begin with the 2nd line not with 5m but 5.5m SP and the following 400k rules. Do NOT assume the test server restrictions will apply to the TQ extractor rules. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 149	Posted - 2016.02.01 18:09:21 - [36] - Quote It seems like this entire topic was double-posted. The other thread I mentioned has many more CSM and large block representation and commenting on it. Probably why it has reached such high page count. Maybe time to shift over to there, guys. You won't be seeing me here anymore; My attention span probably died by page 186. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
Oreb Wing Black Fox Marauders 150	Posted - 2016.02.01 20:50:26 - [37] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Oreb Wing wrote: That minimum was probably set for the test server. I don't think it makes any sense to talk about how they benefit new players if you have to be here three months+ to use one. You can't extract skills you don't have. I think you are confusing extracting and injecting. I'm pretty sure you can inject skills on day one of a new character. Mr Epeen I did! That makes more sense. There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.

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